RELEASE DATE: May 27, 2021
Mt. Freelance Podcast - Episode 107
Kate Bingaman-Burt
Illustrator & Educator
Kate Bingaman-Burt. Where to start? Kate is an illustrator, designer, artist, zine-maker, teacher and educator. She is a full-time professor at Portland State teaching design but also has a thriving freelance illustration career that spans books, editorial, commercial and even museums. And she manages to run her studio workshop space Outlet too. Hear how she does it and get inspired to make and do more creatively.
Listen on Spotify | Listen on Apple Podcasts | Listen on iHeartRadio | Listen on Stitcher | Listen on Pandora
38 Min
Episode Recap
In our fifth episode Aaron James and Andrew Dickson welcome freelance illustrator and full-time professor Kate Bingaman-Burt to the Mt. Freelance podcast.
Kate is one of the hardest working creative people we know. On the one hand she teaches design at Portland State University and is constantly innovating ways to help her students share their work and get exposure to the “real world”, even going as far as to host student portfolio reviews inside agencies like Instrument and Wieden+Kennedy.
She also has a thriving career as an illustrator, which started years ago when she gave herself the assignment of drawing her credit card receipts to help her get out of student loan dept. That project eventually lead to a daily drawing practice, and work in the New York Times, books, galleries, museums and brand campaigns. She also has a thriving studio and workspace space called Outlet where she preaches the gospel of zine-making and Risograph.
In our interview Kate shares her story, how she works, and even walks us through three of the current freelance projects she’s involved in and even specifically talks about how much she’s charging on each and how she charges and negotiates in general. If you’re looking to get inspired to make and do more, or have a personal project you need a little motivation to get going on put on your podcast ears and turn up the volume.
Aaron Ruell
Episode 107
Intro:
This podcast is brought to you by Digital One. Tell your story, connect with your audience, and build your brand with an engaging podcast. Learn more at digone.com.
[Theme Song]
Andrew Dickson:
The song did not lie. You are listening to the Mt. Freelance podcast. I am Andrew Dickson, and with me here is ....
Aaron James:
Aaron James. Andrew, what is this podcast about?
Andrew Dickson:
We are going to bring in a premier creative freelancer, probably someone we know, and maybe have worked with, and we're going to interview them to glean their experience and advice for fellow freelancers.
Aaron James:
Because we believe that there is an abundance out there for freelancers. And as the world turns, there is more and more opportunity for people who desire to be freelancers. But is freelancing easy, Andrew?
Andrew Dickson:
Yes. Freelance, it is initially painful, but you get better at it, which is why we have not booked anyone for our first season, who is starting out as a freelancer.
Aaron James:
Right. So we can learn from people who actually do this. I think you and I are known for incredible amount of energy that we bring into the world and into the world of podcasting, but today's guest is going to out energize us immensely.
Andrew Dickson:
Oh, my gosh. She draws everything she buys. She's a teacher. She has this fantastic freelance illustration and design practice on top of being a professor, and is just a wonderful, energetic, creative marvel. Kate Bingaman-Burt.
[Transition]
Andrew Dickson:
We're so excited. We have an old friend here with us today. Kate Bingaman-Burt. How are you?
Kate Bingaman-Burt:
I'm good. Thank you so much for having me.
Aaron James:
Thanks for being here.
Andrew Dickson:
You are one of the busiest people that we know. And when you meet someone for the first time, how do you describe what you do without just being the longest run on sentence, ever?
Kate Bingaman-Burt:
I know. I think I tend to sometimes just simplify it, and just say that I'm an illustrator and an educator, and leave it at that. And then it unfolds, because it's really been a life of just one thing leads to the next thing, leads the next thing. I firmly believe, following that building upon each other, that's the best way to make things happen. But it takes a while to talk about it when you've been doing it for a while. So I'm like, "I'm an illustrator and an educator." Sometimes I'll say educator and illustrator, but that's basically the short answer.
Andrew Dickson:
And you are unique for us because you are a freelancer. You have this thriving freelance illustration career, but then you also have a full-time job.
Kate Bingaman-Burt:
I do, I do. I'm the head of the graphic design program at Portland State. And I'm also the associate director of the art school at Portland State too. So I do a lot of arts admin stuff, but I feel like for the last several years, it's been just this real combination of working at several different jobs. And a big part of the work that I do is a lot of freelance illustration. Although, when I first started teaching, I didn't have a freelance career at all. It was very much where I went to graduate school. I worked as a designer, I was an in-house designer for a gift company in Omaha, Nebraska. And then I started having all these different project ideas. And I was like, "Hey, I'm going to go to grad school so I can have some time to figure this stuff out."
Kate Bingaman-Burt:
And then when I was in grad school, I ended up teaching a bunch, and then I just started applying for full-time positions at different universities. I ended up teaching at Mississippi State, which was really wonderful for four years. I swear to God, I'm not going to get into the minutia of academia, but the way that a lot of institutions are set up, it's that you're a research institution. And the way that you get tenure is that you have to play by these different rules. When I was at Mississippi State, doing outside design work was not how you played by the rules. It was very much about showing in gallery shows, and presenting at conferences. You had all this number system that you had to follow. Then when I got the job at Portland State, the way that their guidelines were set up was like, yeah, you could do whatever you want. And I was like, "Okay."
Kate Bingaman-Burt:
I would say probably, I started doing freelance work when I started one of my personal drawing projects, which at the time was counting for academic research where I was drawing all my credit card statements until they were paid off. And then that project led to another drawing project where I was drawing something that I purchased every day. And I'm still doing that drawing project. But once I started the project of where I drew something that I purchased every day, that's when I think people who were hiring illustrators, that's when they knew what they could do with me. It was great because I feel like I'm a much better teacher. And I'm more useful to my students because I'm actively participating in the world that they want to be in when they graduate. Sorry. That was a lot. See, I did it. It was a lot. Sorry.
Andrew Dickson:
No. That's awesome. That's awesome.
Aaron James:
When you started drawing something that you purchased every day, where did that idea come from? And was it through this accountability? Because I think there's people that say, "I need to write down what I eat every day so I actually connect with it."
Kate Bingaman-Burt:
That whole thread that I was pulling on started back when I was working as an in-house designer in Omaha, and I was also a sales person, and I would go to trade shows all the time. This is my early 20s, and they would send me all over the country to these giant trade shows, which I was completely fascinated by and I was disgusted by. Again, pulling this thread of just being very curious about why we like our stuff and the emotions we put on our things. I did all these different photo projects and all those documentation projects. That led to me drawing the credit card statements. And I picked drawing because I hated drawing. So that was more of an accountability thing right there, where I'm like, "Okay, Kate, you are comfortable doing layout, you're comfortable doing regular design stuff." But what I've always hated was drawing.
Kate Bingaman-Burt:
When I was $25,000 in credit card debt, after grad school, and it wasn't from going to school, it was from just coffees and art magazines, and whatever, I was like, "You're going to, not only pay these credit cards down, you're going to hand write all your credit card statements out." But the joke was on me in that about, I don't know, a couple months into the project, I was like, "Actually, I'm really am enjoying this whole drawing thing." So yeah, it was to keep myself accountable, but it was also to give myself permission to figure out how to draw other things other than my credit card statements.
Kate Bingaman-Burt:
I really credit the fact that I was so insulated with a university job that I could have time to pull that thread, and to have the means to just sit there and think about stuff because I had a full-time job. Also, it was right at the beginning of things like Flickr. I remember when my husband told me about Flickr. I dramatically remember being like, "Why would I want to share my photos with anyone? This doesn't make any sense to me at all." And I feel very fortunate to have been just in the place in time to have been an early adopter of a lot of platforms like that too, and also to have had ... I don't know. The Internet's weird and I actually really hate it, but I'm looking forward to maybe, eventually it collapsing and we can start over again, and build another Internet. But I think that's another podcast.
Andrew Dickson:
So a lot of those drawings became Obsessive Consumption.
Kate Bingaman-Burt:
I still rolling with that name. I had started that in 2001. It was called Obsessive Consumption then, and that was actually in response to 9/11 of all things. Bringing in 9/11. I don't know if we thought we'd talk about 9/11 today, but we weren't ... So 9/11 happened. One of the things that had come from that, other than just tons of just awfulness, was how in order to be a good patriot, you should be shopping. I remember, one of the very first propaganda graphics that came out from the government was a shopping bag that said, America, we're open for business. And I was just like, "What is this?"
Kate Bingaman-Burt:
That's where Obsessive Consumption came from, because I was doing a lot of photo work during that time too. And all of a sudden, access to all these places that I had as a photographer was just completely getting shut down. It was a weird time, but it was very much like ... That's where Obsessive Consumption came from. It was born out of that era. So I just kept that name and I've always kept that name, but that's where I think the majority of people that became aware of things that I was doing, the drawing project was Obsessive Consumption. What did you buy today? It was just a carry over from what I had started a couple of years earlier too.
Andrew Dickson:
And you're so great at giving yourself these assignments and creating process, and really keeping at it. Say, "I'm going to do this every day, for a long time." But how did you go from being an artist to having a freelance career as an illustrator?
Kate Bingaman-Burt:
Couple part response to that question. I was doing a gallery show with my friend, Faith Levine. I had just started my daily drawing project, and I had maybe a year's worth of drawings that I was displaying in her gallery. And at that time she was working on a documentary called Handmade Nation, and she was also working on a book with Princeton Architectural Press, that was going to be about the documentary. And she was like, "I really need an illustrator. Would you want to work on this?" I was like, "What? I've never ..." Because at that point, I thought of myself more as a graphic designer, but I didn't really think of myself as an illustrator, except that was the thing that I was doing every single day. I don't think I felt comfortable calling myself an illustrator up until a couple years ago.
Kate Bingaman-Burt:
I did not get paid for this project either, which is fine because, again, I also was in a very privileged position where I was teaching and I didn't need that job. I just wanted to figure out how this was going to work. And then the book came out and we did it. I was like, "Well, that's cool." This is going to sound ridiculous, but my first editorial illustration was for the New York Times. But it was because the art director, she had known of my work. And then of course, because I was in the rhythm of already sharing work online, I would just put it on my blog and be like, "Look what I'm doing, blah, blah, blah. I would love to do more stuff like this." I think that's when the illustration became open for business.
Kate Bingaman-Burt:
Also, I think it felt, not like a foreign thing to do, because my grandparents were illustrators. My grandmother, from the time she was 19 until she lost her central vision in her mid 70s, was a children's book illustrator and a paper doll illustrator. Just non-stop illustrations. Some of my favorite memories, growing up, would be in her studio.
Andrew Dickson:
Give us a sense today. What is the balance between your illustration career and then teaching, which—takes up a lot of time. And then also, we were just joking. I asked you about your weekend and you said, "I got a workshop I'm doing tomorrow, on Saturday. And on Sunday, I'm doing a pop-up event."
Kate Bingaman-Burt:
It's stupid, but it's fun, and it all feeds into each other. But some days, things are more clear cut. But other days, sometimes it just gets all mushy and messy, but it's all good. It's stuff that I like. I think that's one of the things where, and I try to really hit this hard with my students, that there's so many different ways that you can be working as a creative, that it's really important to figure out the ways that you like to work. Because if you get yourself in a situation where you're like, "This doesn't fit, this doesn't feel right," it's not that it means that you need to find an entirely different profession. You just need to figure out, what are your core values? What are your goals? What is it that you want to be doing? And identify that because the more sure you are of that, you're going to be able to make smarter decisions about where you're going to be working and how you're going to be working too.
Aaron James:
Yeah. I think a lot of the things that we talk about with freelancers is, we have a tendency to be alone a lot. That's actually a big reason Andrew and I have put together Mt. Freelance and have this community together. And a big part of it is just, when you're alone, bad things happen in terms of just-
Kate Bingaman-Burt:
Exactly.
Aaron James:
... getting discouraged about things or just not having someone to bounce off. Just having that community around. So it's really cool that you're able to recharge and do those projects by yourself, and then be able to be out, social and with a big group.
Kate Bingaman-Burt:
At least I know that I've discovered that I really need to have that balance. I need to be by myself, and then I need to go be around people. I also need to work on lots of different things. Those are just things that you learn about yourself. I think a lot of people are really quick to think that there's something wrong with them, or that there's something wrong with the job. But it's about how you're going to be the best creative person for the project.
[Begin Advertisement]
Andrew Dickson:
Here in Portland, Aaron, we can get Stumptown coffee whenever we want. But what do folks who live elsewhere need to do?
Aaron James:
I'm not sure, actually.
Andrew Dickson:
They go to the Internet and they can actually sign up to get a subscription service where every other Monday, fresh, whole bean coffee is going to be sent to their door.
Aaron James:
Oh, my gosh. So it's like a magazine?
Andrew Dickson:
That you can drink it.
Aaron James:
Do they grind it?
Andrew Dickson:
They don't because they don't want any flavor to be lost in the mail. If you enter, empty freelance, at checkout, you're going to get 50% off your first order.
Aaron James:
Oh, my gosh. Could you bump that up to half off that first order?
Andrew Dickson:
I think I have the authority. Yes. Half off.
Aaron James:
Okay. Let's do it. Empty freelance at checkout, at stumptowncoffee.com.
[End Advertisement]
Andrew Dickson:
I think one of the things that has been so cool to see is what you've brought to Portland State Design. On the one hand, I think you've done such a great job of bringing professionals in. So even, I think a couple of years ago, I reached out and was like, "Hey, I could teach writing."
Kate Bingaman-Burt:
Yeah, you could.
Andrew Dickson:
And you were like, "Yes."
Kate Bingaman-Burt:
I know.
Andrew Dickson:
So I taught writing inside of Portland State Design.
Kate Bingaman-Burt:
I love it.
Andrew Dickson:
You're constantly bringing in speakers, you're constantly bringing professionalism into the classroom. But then you're also pushing your students out.
Kate Bingaman-Burt:
Yes.
Andrew Dickson:
Maybe you can even talk about some of the portfolio day, things that you do and the ways that you really try to prepare your students for it a professional life.
Kate Bingaman-Burt:
I mean, I absolutely love, selfishly, I love bringing in different people to engage with my students and share like what their lives look like, and all that good stuff. Also, really important to me that students have opportunities to talk about their work, to people that aren't just their teachers. It really ups the game a little bit when you're having a portfolio show that's not going to be at school, and you have to go out into the world and figure out, what is your work going to look like in this space? And how are you going to talk to people? Part of the portfolio class that I teach, it's really a very small part, is working on your portfolio. So much of it is about having conversations with people that you don't know.
Kate Bingaman-Burt:
They can just get comfortable sitting down, talking to people about what they do. I'm like, "This is going to be the lowest risk environment to talk to someone that you don't know." You have to talk to people about your work or ask them questions. That's part of the deal of this whole game that we're in. And then I also tell him too, I say, "Listen, what we're also doing here is that I'm helping you build a network of people so you don't have to cold email." That's so much nicer than being like, "Hey, I don't know you." I don't know. Even with the sophomores, I'm doing something with them this year, that I haven't done with my previous sophomore classes, where I'm just having, every single class period, I'm inviting my old students that used to take that class, who are now just fresher alumni, just to come and hang out. Let's share stories and let's talk about this. They can talk about their work, just to get them, so they're talking.
Aaron James:
With Mt. Freelance, there's people at all different levels. And we're shocked, even with some of the experience of some of the people in the group. But so much of the conversation is actually about communication. It's all about, how do we network with the right places? How do we get our foot in the door? How do we communicate with somebody online, when we see a job posting? These are very experienced people who are still ... And I put myself right in that group, right? We're all still just learning, what's the optimal way to communicate.
Kate Bingaman-Burt:
Always.
Aaron James:
And to be in relationship with people.
Kate Bingaman-Burt:
It is always changing. I think that's also why it's so important to send a good email. I teach a class that is ... We act as the in-house design studio for the school. They always have to be reaching out to different clients and different ... I'm like, "Let's look at your email. Let's look at your email." I'm like, "Why are you sending that wall of text? There's no salutation, there's no ..." I'm like, "You now have your minor in email."
Andrew Dickson:
You're making me realize how much email is ... It's my freelancing.
Kate Bingaman-Burt:
Oh, my God.
Andrew Dickson:
I do 95% of my negotiation. And it's where most of the feedback goes back and forth.
Kate Bingaman-Burt:
Yes, yes, and tone in email. I think I just tore apart this one kid's email because I was just like, "I don't know if you know this or not, but you sound super defensive and accusatory in this. You can still have your feelings, but let's just soften this a little bit." Then he's like, "How does that work?" I'm like, "Okay, let's go through this, line by line." "Oh, yeah, that does sound better." I'm like, "Holy cow." But then also too, that class, that's one of the first experiences they have in working with teams. And I think when you're in school, it's so much. I have to know how to do all the things or I'm not going to be a good designer. And I'm like, "No, you don't. You just have to know people and know how to work with people. And be like, 'Oh, wait, no, actually I'm really good at working on teams. I just needed other people to help actualize these great ideas I was having.'
Aaron James:
What are young designers looking to do? Where are people hoping to start their own businesses?
Kate Bingaman-Burt:
There's a lot of them that want to be freelancers. There's a lot of them that immediately, I mean, because we're in Portland, want to immediately go to Nike or go to Wieden. That type of thing. And it's usually the students that immediately want to be freelancers. I'm like, "If you're able to get a job right off the bat, where you are working in an organization that is more than just you, you're going to learn so much from that. So you can eventually then be a freelancer, and that's a smart move."
Kate Bingaman-Burt:
But then I also really encourage them all to be thinking of themselves as businesses, the moment they're in school. I'm like, "If you're doing work for people right now, you need to be thinking of yourself like a business. You need to get your separate checking account. You need to be deducting things. You need to be figuring out schedule Cs. Even if you're not making that much money from it, at least you can be deducting stuff so you can keep more of that money." I have a friend who is an accountant. She owns Math LLC. And Jenna comes into my class, and we do a workshop. It's taxes for freelancers, and it's great.
Andrew Dickson:
I love this. I mean, this is one of the things we talk about at Mt. Freelancers, you have to treat your career like a business.
Kate Bingaman-Burt:
You have to treat your career like a business if you're making something. I am such a firm believer in, you should be able to sustain yourself from your creativity. So let's figure out how we can make money from that.
Andrew Dickson:
I mean, it sounds like you're imparting so much to students, but what are some of the ... I mean, bringing an accountant in.
Kate Bingaman-Burt:
Yeah, I love it.
Andrew Dickson:
That's so antithetical to what ...
Kate Bingaman-Burt:
So great.
Andrew Dickson:
I mean, so many colleges wouldn't allow you to do that. They'd say, "No. No accountants in the classroom."
Kate Bingaman-Burt:
I know. Well, one of the nice things about being in an art school, I don't think PSU really pays that much attention to us. So it's just like, I don't know. I didn't ask any permission to do it. But that plays into a thing that we do in the program too, where we have this opportunity, it's called Good Market. And it's a marketplace for students who make things to sell things. So we actually partnered up with Buyolympia Land Gallery, here in Portland. And Pat Castaldo, who's the owner of Buyolympia, he's been a really good outside advisor for my students who want to figure out, how do I sell this?
Kate Bingaman-Burt:
But we've running this program called Good Market for the last, I don't know, five years, six years. It happens twice a year, where kids who make things from prints to zenes, to buttons, to whatever, they have a place where they can sell it. But that's really been fine. That's just an extracurricular thing that we do in the program, and I love it.
Andrew Dickson:
And again, by the time they've graduated, they've had all these experiences with professionals, and really get a sense of what it's actually like out there.
Kate Bingaman-Burt:
It is. And again, we have a lot of students who are like, "Well, I'm shy." I'm like, "That's okay. You don't have to be this incredible, in your face person. I mean, you can be that way with your work." I think a lot of people think that way too. And you don't. I think that goes back to figuring out the ways that you like to work, knowing yourself, knowing the ways that you operate best, and leaning in to that.
Aaron James:
Yeah. I think one of the threads that I see with all the great folks we've been able to talk to on the podcast, is the continuation of personal projects.
Kate Bingaman-Burt:
Oh, man.
Aaron James:
It's like students do it because they don't have any assignments, or it's a school assignment. But then they keep pushing and then it's like, the minute you get a job, now you're working on who knows what? And it's probably not that interesting if it's your first job.
Kate Bingaman-Burt:
And even if you can show it.
Aaron James:
Right. Yeah, yeah.
Kate Bingaman-Burt:
Because I'll have students come back to me and be like, "I don't know how I'm going to look for another job because I've been under an NDA for the last two years." This is why it's really good to have other interests that are creative, that you can pursue.
Aaron James:
How do you quantify the value of your work? Now let's get out of the education space and into the freelance space. You're an illustrator and someone calls you. Do you have set rates that you do?
Kate Bingaman-Burt:
I don't.
Aaron James:
Or is it by the project? How do you approach all that?
Kate Bingaman-Burt:
It's per project, and I can tell you three of the projects that I'm working on right now. The first one, I'm working on a book with a publishing company, and it's going to be about keeping sketchbooks in zines. So they came to me with ... I think they're paying me total when it's all finished, in different installments. It's going to be $8,000. I'm like, "Okay, that's fine." So that's one, that's one thing that I'm working on. Another thing that I'm in talks with right now, which is driving me nuts, and this was a call that I had two days ago where it was ... There's this hotel that's being built and they want three of my prints to be in every single one of their rooms. And I'm like, "You are a large hotel. This should be a high dollar job."
Kate Bingaman-Burt:
I've never done a big hotel job like this before. So then I basically reached out and was like, "Who do I know that's in?" Basically, before I had the money quote, the money talk situation, I armed myself with other prices, like this person did this hotel, this person did this hotel. So I felt confident in the number that I was giving. They also told me that a lot of hotel jobs are really difficult, and they will completely try to get you to do it for free, which is exactly what happened on the call that I had a couple of days ago where it was just like, they were surprised that I wasn't going to be super excited to do all this for free. So now I'm just waiting to hear back from the email that I sent follow-up.
Andrew Dickson:
That's insane, that they want three pieces of artwork for every single hotel room, for free.
Kate Bingaman-Burt:
They didn't say, "We wanted it for free," but I think they were surprised that I even asked for any sort of dollar sum at all. That's how I was like, "Ew, ew." So that's something that's currently going on. And then I have another job that I'm working on right now, with the university on the East Coast. It's a bunch of illustrations. I'm going to work with their developer, but it was just ... And this is how I'm a lot with a lot of my illustration jobs that aren't editorial, that already have, "Hey, we've got cover. This is how much we pay." With editorial, it's so nice working as an illustrator because they just have their art budgets and they tell you what it is. And it's also so much different working as an illustrator because usually, always, the person that you're working with is someone who's also creative too.
Kate Bingaman-Burt:
Anyways, with this team, I was like, "What's your art budget going to be?" And they're like, "I think we've got $5,000." I'm like, "I don't have a set rate. I have, what is going to ..." Like with the book, there's something else that I know that I'm going to get out of it. It's going to be a lot of work, ultimately, this is going to ... I want this to happen. But the hotel job, if it doesn't happen, whatever. It's like the total ... Come on, pay me for this. Don't play like, "We have to pay to get this stuff printed too." That was something that I'm just like, "That's not-
Aaron James:
How else would it be on the wall?
Kate Bingaman-Burt:
That's not my problem. You're a chain. You print things in your ... Sorry. I hope no one's listening to this one.
Aaron James:
Well, if somebody stays in the room for half the day, it's paid for. Right? Come on.
Kate Bingaman-Burt:
I know. And it's just ... Whatever. It's just like, when people ask me if I have a set rate, I don't.
Andrew Dickson:
I appreciate that. I think sometimes if you just say, "I always charge this," well, you're only going to be able to work with-
Kate Bingaman-Burt:
Exactly.
Andrew Dickson:
... really big companies, and you're going to miss out on a lot of creative opportunities and chances to help.
Kate Bingaman-Burt:
Yeah. And that's the thing too, because I feel like I've been fortunate that it all like evens out.
[Begin Advertisement]
Andrew Dickson:
The most creative thinkers and companies use the same fundamental skills to crack ideas. They've just never been taught.
Aaron James:
Until now.
Andrew Dickson:
School of Ideas helps teams understand the essential skillset behind coming up with transformative ideas. So if you're a freelancer with a rich relative, who's a CEO, tell them to hire School of Ideas. Learn more at schoolofideas.co.
[End Advertisement]
Kate Bingaman-Burt:
It's even different now, a little bit with now having this Outlet business, because I have a full-time employee who is the studio manager for-
Andrew Dickson:
Why don't you explain what Outlet is?
Kate Bingaman-Burt:
Outlet started three years ago. It was supposed to be my studio. And then I was like, "Oh, man, I've got this extra space. So maybe we could do some workshops and things like that." And then my friend, Jason Sturgole, gave me his old Risograph machine. I'm like, "Well, might be fun to do a Risograph workshop." And then that really took off. Now we do Risograph workshops probably once every single week. We have a community of ... I think over 800 people have taken the workshops. So once you take the workshop, then you can sign up for print time hours. So we have six days a week where you can come in and print. Last year I hired a full-time studio manager to basically pay attention, to help make all of that exist without me, because holy cow, because I also had a baby when that was happening too.
Kate Bingaman-Burt:
I was like, "I can't, I can't. I can't run this business. I can't." So Leland has been an absolute savior. But then I was really thinking with the hotel job. I'm like, "That job could pay one year's salary for Leland." I don't know. I think about what these different jobs ... That'll cover this. And now I'm also in the situation now where I'm like ... My freelance job and Outlet still are the same business. And I even cleared it with taxes. I was like, "Does this make sense? Do we have to separate? How does this work?" Because we actually hired a bookkeeper for the first time ever. Amazing. And she was like, "No, you keep it all the same thing. Artists and designers and illustrators, they do lots of different things. So this all works together." I'm like, "Okay."
Andrew Dickson:
Obviously there's teaching design skills, but even thinking about ... You are helping to shape this next generation of designers. What are the things that you really want them to learn and take out in the world?
Kate Bingaman-Burt:
I want them to know that you've really got to love being a creative person, and that you've really got to find the things that are exciting to you. You also have really got to work on working with people, being around people, talking to people in whatever way that might look like. Quiet, loud, whatever. And also know that you have to be open to saying yes, open to different experiences. The ability to be flexible, the ability to improv, the ability to just be a good person to have in the room is so important. That's really what I try to drive home with all of my kids, being a good, kind, hardworking human that wants everyone in the room to succeed.
Kate Bingaman-Burt:
I always say a rising tide raises all the ships, but it's true. And I think also too, and this happens in my sophomore class quite a bit where I will have really great kids, and I can just tell that they are not ... I'm like, "You're not liking this." I want my students to know that it's so important to question that stuff and to then just start trying to figure out what it is that does light a fire for you.
Andrew Dickson:
And it's so great because all the things that you're talking about, your students need to understand. It's the same stuff all of us do.
Kate Bingaman-Burt:
I know.
Andrew Dickson:
I mean, sometimes we get stuck in thinking.
Kate Bingaman-Burt:
Yes.
Andrew Dickson:
Like, "I've been doing this for 20 years, and I guess I have to keep doing it." We get scared to make those changes or to be flexible.
Kate Bingaman-Burt:
Completely. And it gets harder when you get older too, because you're like, "Oh, hell, now I've got a mortgage, and I've got these kids. And now I have to keep doing this stuff." That's where it gets harder. With the students, I'm like, "You can take these risks now."
Andrew Dickson:
Take them.
Kate Bingaman-Burt:
"You can completely change the thing you want to do." It's like, let's do it now before you're 10 years into it. Let's do this now.
Andrew Dickson:
Kate, thank you so much for spending some time with us, and sharing so much wisdom and stories, and great advice.
Kate Bingaman-Burt:
No, absolutely. I love having the chance to ramble about some of this stuff so I appreciate it. Thank you.
[Transition]
Andrew Dickson:
Now we've arrived to the part of the show where we hear from you, the listeners. And we're going to do a little Q&A.
Anonymous Freelancer:
Standing desk, basement, futon? What are your tips on productivity at home/ home office during this crazy time, but also any time, working as a freelancer, working from home and trying to figure out how to establish a routine, and a space that's going to work for your work?
Aaron James:
Well, the first thing you do is you clear out all the kids and pets.
Andrew Dickson:
Just get rid of them.
Aaron James:
I've never had a futon creep into my work day. I guess if it's in couch mode, it's possible that you could sit there and do a little writing. What do you think, Andrew? I mean ...
Andrew Dickson:
For me, I actually like moving around. I have a house here in Portland, and I like being able to switch up where I work. But I think a lot of it is really paying attention to what works for you. I remember the painter, Francis Bacon, he had this incredibly dirty ... Just clutter everywhere. And I think his partner once, to surprise him, cleaned it up, and he couldn't paint anymore. I remember my art teacher from high school, sharing this. But it's figuring out, if clutter slows you down, get rid of it. If having a lot of browsers open makes you multitask, and all of a sudden you're watching something on YouTube, really train yourself. Say, "I'm going to work for an hour, and then I get Internet time."
Andrew Dickson:
But I think it's really paying attention to how you're productive, and ways you're productive, and zeroing in on those things. And also, if you think a standing desk might help, get one. And if it doesn't, you can return it. Think about how much an ad agency or a big brand spends on each individual worker's space. I mean, they're a $1,200 desk and a $3,000 chair. Treat yourself. You're going to do better work if you're comfortable and you're happy.
Aaron James:
And go on walks.
Andrew Dickson:
Bring the pet back. Get a pet so it'll force you to go on walks. Sometimes.
Aaron James:
Then you can let the kids back in.
Andrew Dickson:
The Mt. Freelance podcast is handcrafted by the producers, mixers, and sound designers of Digital One, Portland, Oregon, executive producer, Eric Stolberg post producer, Kelsey Woods, assistant engineer, Tristan Schmunk, who also created the theme song and instrumental music. To learn more about Aaron, Andrew and Mt. Freelance, visit mtfreelance.com. Thanks for listening. May your day rate behind and your vacations long.
Outro:
Digital One.
You know we're more than a podcast, right?
Learn more about everything the Mt. Freelance community can do
to support your journey as a freelancer.
